Comments on: La Macaronicité 3: the more reliable macaron recipe and a few tips http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/ Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:32:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Duncan http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-827 Duncan Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:18:05 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-827 Baking trays: thick aluminium. Oven temp: even if you have created insulation below the macarons, the temperature of the air above the macs should be at least the temp on your thermostat (unless the trays are blocking all airflow, in which case all sorts of things aren't happenign correctly because the heat will be trapped underneath the trays). Under normal circumstances, there's no way your shells should still be white after 17 mins at 160C. [additional comment: I take it back, I've <a href="http://stickofachef.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/making-french-macarons-an-introduction/" rel="nofollow">just seen a recipe</a> which says shells might take 14-17 mins to bake at 170C. Just goes to prove that different ovens can give very different results!] I'm going to be working on a revision of the Portuguese tart recipe. It's a few years old now and my baking skills have improved, so I hope to offer a better one sometime in the next few months. As for canelés... ai ai ai... Last year I almost bought moulds, but stopped myself. This year in Paris I resolved to buy moulds and then ran out of time... we'll see! THey're certainly something I'd like to try, as they're delightful. I look forward to your wisdom about those eventually. Baking trays: thick aluminium.

Oven temp: even if you have created insulation below the macarons, the temperature of the air above the macs should be at least the temp on your thermostat (unless the trays are blocking all airflow, in which case all sorts of things aren't happenign correctly because the heat will be trapped underneath the trays). Under normal circumstances, there's no way your shells should still be white after 17 mins at 160C. [additional comment: I take it back, I've just seen a recipe which says shells might take 14-17 mins to bake at 170C. Just goes to prove that different ovens can give very different results!]

I'm going to be working on a revision of the Portuguese tart recipe. It's a few years old now and my baking skills have improved, so I hope to offer a better one sometime in the next few months. As for canelés… ai ai ai… Last year I almost bought moulds, but stopped myself. This year in Paris I resolved to buy moulds and then ran out of time… we'll see! THey're certainly something I'd like to try, as they're delightful. I look forward to your wisdom about those eventually.

]]> By: Mat http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-826 Mat Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:19:20 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-826 Duncan - indeed I am trying to get as much of your knowledge and experience as possible and not reinvent the wheel. I read some comments about "professional" cookie sheets being better than "regular" ones and thought that you might have a preference. I guess I will simply buy the best ones I get and then resume experimenting since I think the final tuning has to be to one´s equipment (oven, mixer, sheets,...). I agree that the timing is not about the surface but if you have air between several sheets as I had, it functions as an insulator. The macs were perfectly white (I suspended the colors until I get the form right), a very delicate top and they melted in mouth (they were not chewy like for example pavlova interior). To me, they seemed perfect except for the height of the foot. That is why I was asking about potential parameters that you know influence this (e.g. mixing time, temperature). Would you be satisfied if yours would have 2 mm foot :-) Unfortunately, we don´t have macs in Slovenia (yet), but I am in Paris in 2 weeks again and will do extensive tasting again. Anyway, I can´t wait to master it and move to the Portugese tart (I found your recipe in the web article; is that the proper one?). Let me know if/when you decide to try canelles (if you haven´t done it yet). Duncan - indeed I am trying to get as much of your knowledge and experience as possible and not reinvent the wheel.
I read some comments about "professional" cookie sheets being better than "regular" ones and thought that you might have a preference. I guess I will simply buy the best ones I get and then resume experimenting since I think the final tuning has to be to one´s equipment (oven, mixer, sheets,…).
I agree that the timing is not about the surface but if you have air between several sheets as I had, it functions as an insulator. The macs were perfectly white (I suspended the colors until I get the form right), a very delicate top and they melted in mouth (they were not chewy like for example pavlova interior). To me, they seemed perfect except for the height of the foot. That is why I was asking about potential parameters that you know influence this (e.g. mixing time, temperature). Would you be satisfied if yours would have 2 mm foot :-)
Unfortunately, we don´t have macs in Slovenia (yet), but I am in Paris in 2 weeks again and will do extensive tasting again.
Anyway, I can´t wait to master it and move to the Portugese tart (I found your recipe in the web article; is that the proper one?).
Let me know if/when you decide to try canelles (if you haven´t done it yet).

]]> By: Duncan http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-825 Duncan Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:14:45 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-825 Goodness, Mat, I never thought I'd hear myself say it... but it's possible you are dwelling too much on detail! The brand of a baking tray would be irrelevant. The material/construction is of more concern and depends somewhat on the function of your oven. Much of this is discussed in the articles and comments:) The long baking time is unlikely to be attributable to the baking surface, as I would have expected your shells to have been clearly (undesirably) browned on top after such a long time. Check your oven temp with a reliable thermometer. The inside of a macaron is always somewhat soft and lightly moist (which is why they lose their tummies sometimes). I think it would be fair to say that a macaron shell should never have 'crunch' or 'chew'. Is anyone producing them where you live? Ladurée and Hermé always have quite high feet, some other manufacturers less so. Although form is important, remember that seeing what happens as you experiment is also important... you might decide you prefer them one way or another. Goodness, Mat, I never thought I'd hear myself say it… but it's possible you are dwelling too much on detail! The brand of a baking tray would be irrelevant. The material/construction is of more concern and depends somewhat on the function of your oven. Much of this is discussed in the articles and comments:)

The long baking time is unlikely to be attributable to the baking surface, as I would have expected your shells to have been clearly (undesirably) browned on top after such a long time. Check your oven temp with a reliable thermometer.

The inside of a macaron is always somewhat soft and lightly moist (which is why they lose their tummies sometimes). I think it would be fair to say that a macaron shell should never have 'crunch' or 'chew'.

Is anyone producing them where you live? Ladurée and Hermé always have quite high feet, some other manufacturers less so. Although form is important, remember that seeing what happens as you experiment is also important… you might decide you prefer them one way or another.

]]> By: Mat http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-824 Mat Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:51:32 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-824 Duncan, I would say that the baking time was due to provisional insulation I made (one baking tray+one bottom of springform pan+one aluminum plate). There was definitely air between springform bottom and aluminum plate and therefore additional insulation. I will resume testing once I get the cookie plates (do you recommend any brand?). I assume that the inside of the macs has to be quite dry after cooling but still soft when hot. Correct? And about the feet: I had about 2mm height which is less than it looks at for exapmle your chocolate mac photo. How many milimeters would you say is OK? Duncan,
I would say that the baking time was due to provisional insulation I made (one baking tray+one bottom of springform pan+one aluminum plate). There was definitely air between springform bottom and aluminum plate and therefore additional insulation.
I will resume testing once I get the cookie plates (do you recommend any brand?).
I assume that the inside of the macs has to be quite dry after cooling but still soft when hot. Correct?
And about the feet: I had about 2mm height which is less than it looks at for exapmle your chocolate mac photo. How many milimeters would you say is OK?

]]> By: Duncan http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-823 Duncan Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:23:03 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-823 Well done Mat. Good to hear! Baking time of 17 minutes is waaaaay longer than I would expect for 4cm macarons... but if it worked for you then that's marvellous:) I work with a gas oven with heat from the bottom only, of course, so I'm not sure what other parameters are coming into play in your kitchen. Foot height varies a lot. I like the height of those on Ladurée's macarons. You'll find the feet almost always look amaaaazing in the oven but shrink back a bit towards the end of cooking or even during cooling. Almost certainly, heat sources and locations has a role to play, as does the type of tray. I've seen a tip in a French book which mentioned moisture in the oven, but I can't think why that would help... but try it, why not! Well done Mat. Good to hear! Baking time of 17 minutes is waaaaay longer than I would expect for 4cm macarons… but if it worked for you then that's marvellous:) I work with a gas oven with heat from the bottom only, of course, so I'm not sure what other parameters are coming into play in your kitchen.

Foot height varies a lot. I like the height of those on Ladurée's macarons. You'll find the feet almost always look amaaaazing in the oven but shrink back a bit towards the end of cooking or even during cooling. Almost certainly, heat sources and locations has a role to play, as does the type of tray. I've seen a tip in a French book which mentioned moisture in the oven, but I can't think why that would help… but try it, why not!

]]> By: Mat http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-817 Mat Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:00:50 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-817 It worked! A smaller bowl to make meringue with 25 g of egg white without any syrup loss. The first batch was undermixed - little tips on the top of macs remained through the baking process. The next one was OK. Size: 4cm (when piped; 14mm plain tip for piping) Baking time: 17 minutes. Heating: just the bottom of the oven, temperature 160 oC. The only thing I am not satisfied with is the height of the foot. It is only 2-3 mm while on all photos it looks thicker. What is the factor that influences that? What is the optimal foot thickness by your opinion? And one more: do you recommend any cookie sheet brand? It worked!
A smaller bowl to make meringue with 25 g of egg white without any syrup loss.
The first batch was undermixed - little tips on the top of macs remained through the baking process. The next one was OK.
Size: 4cm (when piped; 14mm plain tip for piping) Baking time: 17 minutes. Heating: just the bottom of the oven, temperature 160 oC.
The only thing I am not satisfied with is the height of the foot. It is only 2-3 mm while on all photos it looks thicker. What is the factor that influences that? What is the optimal foot thickness by your opinion?
And one more: do you recommend any cookie sheet brand?

]]> By: Mat http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-772 Mat Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:16:11 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-772 Duncan, thanks. I already designed the next experiment - knowing that the 50 g batch size is OK, I will use a smaller bowl (not the KitchenAid one) to mix the whites; it will probably also be easier to pour the hot syrup into it and make sure that the contact to the whisk and splatter is minimal. For the coloring, it's simply experimenting. I'll have to see whether the color dissolves (partially) in the reserved egg white (to ensure better spread when mixed) or is it better to blend it with the dry ingredients. But I will leave that until I master the basic macs (easier to judge when they are done if they are not bright blue). Based on your comments, the mixing is done as soon as there is a total blend of all the ingredients (something like for muffins), right. And for the baking time (actually at 160 oC, regular oven) - what is the approximate time when they should be done (just to know and not be nervous after 5 minutes and not to wait for 45 minutes). My oven has options to heat just at the bottom or bottom+top; any experience or suggestion what would be preferred? Now back to experiments. It's lot of disappointment, but then when you get it right you are more proud. I know the experience from canelles de Bordeaux (spent 3 months experimenting and I am *almost* there, at the point of total perfection). Duncan, thanks. I already designed the next experiment - knowing that the 50 g batch size is OK, I will use a smaller bowl (not the KitchenAid one) to mix the whites; it will probably also be easier to pour the hot syrup into it and make sure that the contact to the whisk and splatter is minimal.
For the coloring, it's simply experimenting. I'll have to see whether the color dissolves (partially) in the reserved egg white (to ensure better spread when mixed) or is it better to blend it with the dry ingredients. But I will leave that until I master the basic macs (easier to judge when they are done if they are not bright blue).
Based on your comments, the mixing is done as soon as there is a total blend of all the ingredients (something like for muffins), right.
And for the baking time (actually at 160 oC, regular oven) - what is the approximate time when they should be done (just to know and not be nervous after 5 minutes and not to wait for 45 minutes). My oven has options to heat just at the bottom or bottom+top; any experience or suggestion what would be preferred?
Now back to experiments. It's lot of disappointment, but then when you get it right you are more proud. I know the experience from canelles de Bordeaux (spent 3 months experimenting and I am *almost* there, at the point of total perfection).

]]> By: Duncan http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-766 Duncan Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:24:03 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-766 G'day Mat. Syrup can always be troublesome. Some practice needed there, that's all. I often do batches of the size you describe. Adding colouring can be tricky. If you're using dry, why not mix it through the dry ingredients at the start or add it to the reserved eggwhite? THe time for mixing comes with a feel for when the batter looks right, but I'd say I spend less than 60 seconds mixing (never timed it). And the time they take depends too much on the individual oven, etc. As the recipe says... they're ready when the shell only moves reluctantly when you nudge it. G'day Mat. Syrup can always be troublesome. Some practice needed there, that's all. I often do batches of the size you describe. Adding colouring can be tricky. If you're using dry, why not mix it through the dry ingredients at the start or add it to the reserved eggwhite? THe time for mixing comes with a feel for when the batter looks right, but I'd say I spend less than 60 seconds mixing (never timed it). And the time they take depends too much on the individual oven, etc. As the recipe says… they're ready when the shell only moves reluctantly when you nudge it.

]]> By: Mat http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-765 Mat Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:59:35 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-765 Duncan, thanks for great tips. First macs I tried to make (not using your recipe) were grainy, too hard and cracked. People were still asking for recipe :-) The first "Italian" try was bad. It seemed like overmixec, but I think it was due to great syrup losses in meringue preparation. I was doing a 50 g whites batch and when you try to mix 25 g of it in standard Kitchenaid bowl, lots of syrup ends up on bowl walls, hardened and not doing its function. Question: what batch size would you recommend for standard Kitchenaid bowl? I wouldn't mind doing a larger one when I would know it would be OK but throwing away almonds can be quite costly. Overmixing could also be the result of coloring. I added powdered color (I bought it in a professional store in Paris) at the end and it needed quite some mixing to incorporate. It was still not complete and macs had spots of intensive color. Next time I will try mixing the color with sugar and almonds. Another question regarding mixing: how long should it take (with your recommended batch size)? It would be easier to judge knowing whether you do it with 10 turns in 20 seconds or with 30 turns in 3 minutes. Anyway, I managed to get glossy tops but completely flattened macs, not even good to eat since they were not baked enough. Last question: you do not mention how long the baking should take (at 140 oC normal oven which I used). Duncan, thanks for great tips. First macs I tried to make (not using your recipe) were grainy, too hard and cracked. People were still asking for recipe :-)
The first "Italian" try was bad. It seemed like overmixec, but I think it was due to great syrup losses in meringue preparation. I was doing a 50 g whites batch and when you try to mix 25 g of it in standard Kitchenaid bowl, lots of syrup ends up on bowl walls, hardened and not doing its function.
Question: what batch size would you recommend for standard Kitchenaid bowl? I wouldn't mind doing a larger one when I would know it would be OK but throwing away almonds can be quite costly.
Overmixing could also be the result of coloring. I added powdered color (I bought it in a professional store in Paris) at the end and it needed quite some mixing to incorporate. It was still not complete and macs had spots of intensive color. Next time I will try mixing the color with sugar and almonds.
Another question regarding mixing: how long should it take (with your recommended batch size)? It would be easier to judge knowing whether you do it with 10 turns in 20 seconds or with 30 turns in 3 minutes.
Anyway, I managed to get glossy tops but completely flattened macs, not even good to eat since they were not baked enough.
Last question: you do not mention how long the baking should take (at 140 oC normal oven which I used).

]]> By: Vince http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-600 Vince Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:37:51 +0000 http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/#comment-600 Thanks for the tips. I will try them today...off to buy some egg whites and more almond flour (I ran out after making multiple batches the other week!!!)....will let you know how they turn out! Thanks for the tips. I will try them today…off to buy some egg whites and more almond flour (I ran out after making multiple batches the other week!!!)….will let you know how they turn out!

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